here is a good article revealing the un's perspective on the matter.
(my apologies if this has already been posted).
the global policy forum is based in new york city and has consultative status at the un.. the title of the article is:.
Here is a good article revealing the UN's perspective on the matter. (My apologies if this has already been posted)
The Global Policy Forum is based in New York City and has consultative status at the UN.
The title of the article is:
Jehovah's Witnesses Quit UN Affiliation after 10 year Relationship with UN Made Public (October 30, 2001)It appears as a link about two thirds of the way down the following page:
http://www.globalpolicy.org/ngos/ngo-un/index.htm
Five Gospels
we had our second co talk yesterday, the topic of which was loyalty, thinly veiled as to one another, but dripping with threats toward those who might go against the society.. after the usual drivel about the society being god's organisation, and appreciating their junk food (as an aside, has anyone actually vomitted up any of this "food"??
just wondering...), i was rudely dragged out of my slumber by the co's harsh declaration that we should shun all those who slipped away from the thruth, as they inactivity is a bad influence.
he went on to heap the blame on them, "if they feel this way, then they should expect their due", "they bring shunning onto themselves" etc.... has it always been this way?
After the usual drivel about the Society being God's organisation, and appreciating their junk food (as an aside, has anyone actually vomitted up any of this "food"?? just wondering...),
I actually got very nauseous to the point of wanting to step outside and puke. At one of our recent C/O visits he gave a talk on loyalty and stated that "the Society is always right... if you ever have to wonder whether anything they do or say is right... THEY ARE RIGHT!" Makes me sick just thinking about it.
Five Gospels
have you folks or your agents read and carefully digested the posts in the very recent thread entitled "how many got the real truth from the internet"?.
and it spells trouble for you.. you would be doing the world a favor if you just admitted your faults and disbanded the entire organization.
and given the destruction you've wrought in people's lives over the last hundred years and more, that's exactly what you should do.. but, since there's so much money involved you won't do that until you're forced.
Amen!
i was interested in how many of you took up higher education after leaving the jws, and how old you were etc.
i started college at age 23 (still enrolled at 24), my mother got her ged at 35 - disfellowshipped and started college at 40 - and will graduate at 45 from the university of florida in june.
my inactive sister is a freshman in college, right on time.. my jw brother has two kids and washes windows.
ConnieLynn said:
I don't think that everyone who skips college ends up on the streets with a gun. I agree that by and large, everyone benefits from education, I just think it is pretty general to say everyone has to go to college to get it.
I wholeheartedly agree. There are many avenues to obtaining "education." Formal collegiate training is not the only way. I think it is a copout for somebody to assert that they cannot accomplish something because they never had the opportunity to receive classroom instruction. In our modern industrialized world, there is no excuse for ignorance... information is ubiquitous and easily obtained.
In my own case, I graduated from high school but didn't pursue college immediately. However, I never discontinued my studies of those subjects that are of interest to me. Learning, for me, is a life-long process. Over the years, the range of subjects that interest me has grown. As an adult, I have been able to simply walk in to my local University and take a few courses to complement my professional interests, but I still consider myself mostly self-educated. I have an extensive personal library that I have meticulously built up over the course of my life - with subjects ranging from business and science to mathematics and philosophy. I also have a very high paying job (in the top 80th percentile of the nation) in the software industry that I obtained before taking any college courses. I'm very good at what I do and I enjoy my work. I'm not trying to glorify myself... I'm just reinforcing the point that college is not a necessary path to a higher standard of living... it is merely a sufficient one.
At the same time I see great value in a complete (2-4 years) formal collegiate education following high school - so I'm not knocking it. I think it's contemptible that the WTBTS has such a callous attitude toward higher education but I think even more contemptible is the reason why: education of any type, above and beyond simple reading, writing and arithmetic, interferes with their own "educational program" of indoctrination and mind control.
So, rebelledat12, to answer your question, I'm in my early thirties and plan on completing my undergraduate education so that I can enroll in a graduate program. I'm working full time, I have a family and I'm doing the WTBTS fade-out thing, so I'm sure it will take time... but I'm not doing it out of necessity, but out of want.
Five Gospels
some of the recent posts regarding the "anointed" got me thinking about some of the characters that i have met, or have known about, professing membership among this elite class of people.. one particular character i know of, even today espousing some, shall we say, interesting viewpoints on matters, had an even more interesting past.
it seems that some years ago (c. 1970's) a typically subdued but otherwise ordinary christian meeting was being closed with a prayer at a small kingdom hall in the north eastern usa when it was suddenly disrupted by this individual (even then professing to be anointed) assaulting his wife at the rear of the hall!
he was pretty much disfellowshiped on the spot for his indiscretion.
Thank you for your comments everybody. As most of you can probably appreciate, I'm not really pulling my hair out over this one. Rather, I presented this dilemma as another example of the tenuous nature of Watchtower doctrine.
To give a little more background, I presented this problem in response to information found in the 2/15 1998 Watchtower, page 20,
Suppose an anointed one became unfaithful. Would there be a replacement? Paul indicated as much in his discussion of the symbolic olive tree. (Romans 11:11-32) If a spirit-begotten one needs to be replaced, likely God would give the heavenly calling to someone whose faith had been exemplary in rendering sacred service to him for many years.-Compare Luke 22:28, 29; 1 Peter 1:6, 7., along with my own observation of a particular "anointed" Christian falling away and then returning.
Many of you made some interesting points.
Lotus,
I appreciate your response. As one of the anointed, do you have any thoughts on the actual dilemma that I presented?
singsongboi,
You make interesting point:
however, in the event, that a 'called' member of the 144,000 dies unfaithful...then it's logical that god could 'call' a replacement -- whoever he may choose to call!!!This may seem logical at first, but on closer inspection it presents a couple of problems. First, if Jehovah waited until an unfaithful member of the 144,000 dies before calling a replacement, then what happens (as Amazing points out) if one such member lives long enough to have to be destroyed at Armageddon? (This is a real possibility in Watchtower theology since Armageddon is "so imminent" and some of the newer anointed are so [relatively] young.) After Armageddon, nobody will be dying of natural causes, so there will be nobody in any position to go to heaven - at least not in the standard way. Secondly, the 1998 2/15 Watchtower (quoted above) suggests that a replacement would be made if one becomes unfaithful but doesn't suggest that this would only occur after this one dies. However, as you appropriately pointed out, this is all just THEORY.
Moxy,
You said:
yes, this is a dilemma. but you dont seem to be familiar with the *actual* WT teaching on free will. they teach that god *can* foreknow anything he wishes to, but *chooses* not to. and his choosing not to is equivalent to free will. in order to make the theology work in wacky places like the DF'ed anointed you mention and other places, one has to invoke jehovahs ability to selectively foreknow certain things.Actually, I'm painfully familiar with the *actual* WT teaching on free will. Notice that I said:
For those inclined to respond that "God can choose, or choose not, to determine in advance the course of a person's life" (the infamous "radio station" analogy from the Reasoning book) then why would He not use this ability on the ones He first invites into the fold to save Himself the trouble of having to call another when one falls away permanently?The "radio station" analogy is found on p. 141 of the Reasoning from the Scriptures book (both the 1985 and 1989 edition). Like many other Watchtower "reasonings," I bought into this until I finally overcame my Watchtower trained "stop think" and started asking the really hard questions. (The refutation of this view probably deserves its own thread.)
Justin,
I enjoyed your comment too. Can you provide any Watchtower articles that support your view? Specifically, if one repents before Jehovah removes their righteous standing, they are received back as anointed ones?
Thanks again everyone. As usual, I find people's posts here to be intelligent, insightful and engaging.
Five Gospels
some of the recent posts regarding the "anointed" got me thinking about some of the characters that i have met, or have known about, professing membership among this elite class of people.. one particular character i know of, even today espousing some, shall we say, interesting viewpoints on matters, had an even more interesting past.
it seems that some years ago (c. 1970's) a typically subdued but otherwise ordinary christian meeting was being closed with a prayer at a small kingdom hall in the north eastern usa when it was suddenly disrupted by this individual (even then professing to be anointed) assaulting his wife at the rear of the hall!
he was pretty much disfellowshiped on the spot for his indiscretion.
Some of the recent posts regarding the "anointed" got me thinking about some of the characters that I have met, or have known about, professing membership among this elite class of people.
One particular character I know of, even today espousing some, shall we say, interesting viewpoints on matters, had an even more interesting past. It seems that some years ago (c. 1970's) a typically subdued but otherwise ordinary Christian meeting was being closed with a prayer at a small Kingdom Hall in the North Eastern USA when it was suddenly disrupted by this individual (even then professing to be anointed) assaulting his wife at the rear of the Hall! He was pretty much disfellowshiped on the spot for his indiscretion. Some time later, however, he was reinstated and today is very much active (giving public talks etc.).
This whole idea of the anointed "falling away" and some even coming back leads to an interesting dilemma:
The number (144,000) of anointed Christians was supposedly "sealed," was it not? The explanation given for "new membership" among the anointed class is essentially that new "job openings" (my own metaphor) appear when anointed Christians fall away spiritually. So, the case of brother Wife-Beater presents a problem with one of two solutions:
1. Jehovah knew that this person would repent and return to the fold and thus his slot was left open in the interim.
2. Jehovah did not know whether this person would repent and thus immediately filled this slot by bringing a new member into the fold.
But there are problems with both of these scenarios.
The first contradicts the JW notion of free will. For if Jehovah knows in advance who will return, then the converse is also true, i.e. He knows in advance who will not return. However, if He knows who will not return then how can any meaning be found in the scriptures that say: "Jehovah does not desire anybody to be destroyed but He desires all to repent." If one's life course can be determined, then why would Jehovah desire something for all which can be known to be the providence of only some? For those inclined to respond that "God can choose, or choose not, to determine in advance the course of a person's life" (the infamous "radio station" analogy from the Reasoning book) then why would He not use this ability on the ones He first invites into the fold to save Himself the trouble of having to call another when one falls away permanently?
The second scenario is problematic because we have to consider what happens when such "prodigal sons" are welcomed back into the fold. Are there really 144,000 + n anointed (where n is the number of anointed whom fell away and then returned)? Do the new members get demoted back to the ranks of the "earthly" class when [formerly] anointed persons are reinstated? Or perhaps the [formerly] anointed are welcomed back into the organization but no longer have the "heavenly hope" -- they just don't know it yet!
Perhaps some among the "we are spotless, unblemished, our robes have been made white," "yet we like to chat with dissidents," "and by the way, we are among the 144,000" class can shed some light on this matter.
Inquiring minds want to know!
Five Gospels
i'm pretty new here (five minutes old!
) and i'm curious: how many have left the organization and, in time, become athiests.
i was raised in the organization, so growing up, my thinking was -- of course -- stifled.
2SYN,
You said:
The problem with most people believing in God (tribal or otherwise) is that they have never read the Godell Theory of Incompleteness. Quite an eye-openeer, that one!I'm very familiar with Kurt Gödel’s theorems. For most who have studied them, Gödel’s results are evidence that stable and self-contained systems of reasoning, e.g. mathematical reasoning, are either insufficient to express all true theorems that exist within the system (hence incomplete), or lead to undecidable propositions.
If Gödelian incompleteness does in fact extend into such metaphysical questions as the existence of God, then the consequence is that there exist things that are true that cannot be proven within the logical framework of our epistemology, or things leading to contradictions, or things that are completely undecidable - but nevertheless "true." So, I fail to see how Gödel’s results are a "real eye opener" in the sense that they would lead one to believe that God does not exist.
Fellow Posters:
I realize this is a thread more or less for the atheists in this forum. But as somebody made the comment that they wonder why “Christians” have not contributed to this discussion, please let me throw in my 2-cents:
First of all, the Christian/Atheist division presents a false dichotomy to me. If what you mean by “Christian” is somebody who simply extols the virtues of a man who was a staunch critic of the Jewish (and by corollary, any man-made) religious system and a promoter of peace and love, then yes, I am a Christian. But if you mean a person who subscribes to any one of a plethora of man-made (or man-enforced) traditions or interpretations of what is required to be “approved by Jesus/God”, then no, I am not a Christian in that sense.
I understand where most of you are coming from though, and I respect people’s conclusions even if they are different from my own. This trend, i.e. of a reversal from “believer” to “atheist” that seems so prevalent among former Jehovah’s Witnesses is noteworthy. I think the Society’s very nature fosters this trend. Basically, their theology forces one to reject virtually every idea about God/spirituality that does not conform their limited world-view, and when their house of cards finally proves too tenuous for one to adhere to, there seems to be nothing left. This is difficult and often traumatic when it happens to somebody; I know -- I went through this myself. I had to come to terms with such matters as my own mortality and my place (or apparent lack thereof) in the world. I “flirted” with atheism for some time and yet I arrived at a conclusion that probably differs from that of many posters here.
I do believe in a God. I also believe that it is possible that God does not exist. (Some might say that by definition this make me an atheist but I do not agree.) My concept of “God” may be different than what most people have in mind. I also think that many "reasonings" on the non-existence of God are nothing more than straw man arguments: "I can't believe that some bearded old man is floating around the universe zapping things with his magic wand," (the straw man) "therefore the notion of God is ridiculous."
On the other hand, I agree that the Biblical God is difficult to reconcile with our modern world-view. To me, the Bible is a record of man's early attempts to express his understanding or interpretation of the "spiritual experience" that seems to be common to man. Just as Newtonian physics was an early attempt to explain the mechanics of the universe and proved to be insufficient, so might it be said of our outdated modes of spiritual "reasoning?”
I know you have all heard the mantra: absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. But it rings true for me, in this case, and I am not willing to throw away the baby with the bathwater. I like to think, if anything, that our understanding of our place (and our origins) in the universe is, and will continue to be, an evolutionary process. Perhaps we, as a species, are not yet intellectually equipped to “know” or prove certain realities at this time. Nevertheless, I enjoy the discovery process, and I am ok with the possibility that I myself may never know the answers.
Five Gospels
jehovah's witness church accused of hiding sexual abusers .
by matt pyeatt.
cns staff writer.
More double-talk... makes me sick...
Jehovah's Witness church officials in New York deny that the church hides criminal activity. "We have no such policy. Our policy allows for anyone who wishes to report the matter to the authorities to do so," J.R. Brown, national spokesman for the Jehovah's Witness organization, said. "We strictly comply. We are not in any way resistive to the proper authorities being notified."
Every Jehovah's Witness knows the proper authorities to report any matter to... it's the congregation elders!
How does J.R. Brown even sleep at night?
Five Gospels
when caught red handed with 10 years of signed documents where your leaders swore to uphold and promote the interests of the very organization you have vilified as satan's instrument, you now say, "i don't see that as a sin.
because you were caught?
also, if the proof is only "supposed," then where's a solid rebuttal to that proof without the ad hominems and red herrings?.
Here is the Watchtower article that discusses why a true Christian would not become affiliated with the YMCA:
Questions from Readers (Watchtower, January 1, 1979 p. 22)Is it true that for religious reasons Jehovah's Witnesses may not become members of the YMCA (Young Men's Christian Association)?
Yes, that is so. We have long recognized that the YMCA, though not being a church as such, is definitely aligned with the religious organizations of Christendom in efforts to promote interfaith.
In September 1885 the Watch Tower took this position:
"Alas for the Bible-rearing practiced in the Y. M. C. Associations! They are completely under the control of the sectarians, by whom they are supported. Though professedly non-sectarian, professedly controlled by no creed but the Bible, they are more creed-bound than others, since they are bound by all the popular creeds."-P. 6.
Later the underlying religious purpose and interfaith efforts of the YMCA were mentioned in the September 1964 issue of Kingdom Ministry, used by Jehovah's Witnesses in one of their meetings.
Many persons think of the "Y" simply as a social organization that offers various services, such as a swimming pool, facilities for athletic training and a place for clubs to meet. Commendable as some of these provisions may be, it is important to bear in mind that the YMCA was founded with a distinctly religious basis. This was set out at a World Alliance in Paris in 1855. The main part of that official statement (called the Paris Basis) reads:
"The Young Men's Christian Associations seek to unite those young men, who, regarding Jesus Christ as their God and Saviour, according to the Holy Scriptures, desire to be His disciples in their faith and in their life, and to associate their efforts for the extension of His Kingdom amongst young men." (Italics added)
While in some countries churches may not be the YMCA's main source of revenue and while membership is open to persons of all races, nationalities and religions, the fundamental religious objectives of the "Y" cannot be ignored.
'But,' some may sincerely wonder, 'is religion or interfaith really an aspect of the YMCA?' The answer must be "Yes." Though religious features may be de-emphasized in some branches of the YMCA, all local "Ys" are still expected to comply with the Paris Basis. Further, note comments from the 1975 YMCA publication Christian and Open:
Anza A. Lema, associate of the executive committee of the World Alliance of YMCAs, wrote:
"From its very foundation, it has always looked to the Bible for inspiration and guidance. In many ways its role in the world has tended to complement that of the church without claiming to be a congregation itself. . . .
"But it is more than just an instrument through which Christians put their moral ideals and teachings into practice as they serve society. Most supporters of the YMCA look at it as a place where real fellowship with one another through Jesus Christ is experienced. . . .
"In humbling itself and trying to relate its structures and services more directly to the community, it will be carrying out more effectively its role of service and priesthood for its neighbours. . . . "
Matthias Dannenmann, general secretary, National Council of YMCAs of Germany, said:
"From its very beginning the YMCA was no doubt meant to have only Christians as members and on the other hand there was the missionary obligation towards those members who could not yet profess Jesus Christ. . . .
"The YMCA is a big offer, but only in as far as Jesus Christ is working in it as Living Saviour. We should do our very best not to drive out this Lord but as we carry him in our name we should personally use every chance of meeting him in the YMCA and of continuously extending this possibility to other people."
Officials of the organization have pointed out that they feel that more attention needs to be given to the religious orientation of the YMCA. Dr. Paul M. Limbert, from 1952-1962 secretary-general of the YMCA's World Alliance in Geneva, Switzerland, wrote:
"It may readily be granted that too few Y.M.C.A.s take full advantage of the opportunity for ecumenical education inherent in these informal contacts among Christians . . .
"When questions about different forms and beliefs arise among young people and adults, the wise leader takes advantage of the occasion to guide discussion from superficial argument to deeper dialogue. . . .
Leaders in both churches and Y.M.C.A.s need to recognize more clearly the essential nature of a lay ecumenical Christian movement. A Young Men's Christian Association is not a church nor a substitute for a church. . . . Yet the Faith and Order commission of the British Council of Churches declared in a carefully worded statement in 1959 that the Christian Associations are 'valuable auxiliaries' of the churches, organs of their own missionary activity."-The Christian Century, June 10, 1964.
And The Christian Century of August 29, 1969, in its article "Happy Birthday, Y.M.C.A.!", stated:
"Realizing that the Christian identity of the 'Y' has often been drowned in swimming pools, its leaders are engaged in recovery of theological awareness and ecumenical vigor. . . . It may be that the greatest challenge to the Y.M.C.A. is to reclaim its religious heritage for the robust assertion of a new ecumenism among laymen in local communities. The Y.M.C.A. just might be able to do things for the Christian churches which, in their parochial rigidities, they seem unable to do for themselves."
Consequently, there is ample evidence that the YMCA originated with religious objectives and continues to have such to this day.
In joining the YMCA as a member a person accepts or endorses the general objectives and principles of the organization. He is not simply paying for something he receives, such as when buying things being sold to the public at a store. (Compare 1 Corinthians 8:10; 10:25.) Nor is his membership merely an entry pass, as when a person buys a theater ticket. Membership means that one has become an integral part of this organization founded with definite religious objectives, including the promotion of interfaith. Hence, for one of Jehovah's Witnesses to become a member of such a so-called "Christian" association would amount to apostasy.
Some individuals have on occasion not become members but have paid a onetime admission fee, viewing this as simply paying for a commercial service available. Even in this regard it is wise to consider whether this course will adversely affect the consciences of others.-1 Cor. 8:11-13.
Jehovah's Witnesses, of course, appreciate a balanced amount of healthful exercise. The Bible says that "bodily training is beneficial for a little." Yet it adds that "godly devotion is beneficial for all things." (1 Tim. 4:8) That does not mean devotion to a triune God. The Bible does not teach that Jesus is "God" in a trinity, as is taught in many of Christendom's churches and as is still included in the "Paris Basis" of the YMCA.-1 Cor. 11:3; John 17:3.
While interfaith efforts and ecumenism are popular today, they are not upheld by the true God, who told his servants: "Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. . . . 'Therefore get out from among them, and separate yourselves.'" (2 Cor. 6:14-17) Also, Jesus plainly said that the Almighty must be worshiped "with spirit and truth." (John 4:24) Most definitely that does not mean joining in a religious cause with persons holding beliefs contrary to what the Scriptures teach. (Rev. 18:4, 5) Thus, it is because of their understanding of what God expects of true worshipers, and of what the purposes and direction of the YMCA are, that Jehovah's Witnesses may not become members of that organization.
Further, it is well to give thought to the fact that in virtually all the years of the YMCA's existence, it has not acted in harmony with the spirit of Isaiah 2:2-4, as can be noted from the following historical facts:
"YMCA services to the armed forces began, in the United States, with the Civil War, and it continued giving service through all wars thereafter."-Encyclopaedia Britannica, Micropaedia, Vol. X, p. 835, 1976 ed.
"In the Civil War, only ten years after its beginning in Boston, and before there were buildings or secretaries or financial resources, a total of 4,859 'delegates' were recruited and deployed and over six millions of donated funds used for the temporal and spiritual needs of soldiers. . . . In World War I, the American Y.M.C.A. assumed an enormous responsibility for service at home and abroad for which a staff of 25,926 was required with expenditures of more than 167 million dollars. In World War II, the Y.M.C.A. became one of the organizations that founded the United Service Organizations [USO], joining as a group of private religious organizations from Protestant, Catholic, and Jewish faiths in an agreement with the Federal government to provide civilian recreational, welfare, and religious services to men in uniform and to war-production workers in communities adjacent to military establishments."-The New Funk & Wagnalls Encyclopedia, Vol. 36, pp. 13,467, 13,468, 1952 ed.
"YMCA activities for members of the armed forces began during the Civil War (1861-1865). These services increased with each later war and reached their fullest development during World War II (1939-1945). The YMCA maintained more than 450 clubs for the Allied armed forces."-The World Book Encyclopedia, Vol. 21, p. 477, 1978 ed.
This kind of service under the name "Christian" was certainly not in fulfillment of Micah 4:3.
Wow... they state their position in no uncertain terms here! I especially appreciated the opening remarks:
We have long recognized that the YMCA, though not being a church as such, is definitely aligned with the religious organizations of Christendom in efforts to promote interfaith.
This is really a key point. Is not the UN also aligned with the religious organizations of Christendom in efforts to promote peace?
The answer, of course, must be yes. Consider what the December 8, 1989 Awake! magazine says on page 27:
Religious involvement in the search for peace confirms what Dag Hammarskjöld, former secretary-general of the United Nations, once said: "The [UN] Organization and the churches stand side by side as participants in the efforts of all men of good will, irrespective of their creed or form of worship, to establish peace on earth."I also appreciated this from the YMCA article:
And The Christian Century of August 29, 1969, in its article "Happy Birthday, Y.M.C.A.!", stated:."Similarly, are the churches of Christendom relying upon the UN to do only what God's Kingdom can accomplish? I shouldn't even have to answer that but consider what the December 1, 1976 Watchtower says:"Realizing that the Christian identity of the 'Y' has often been drowned in swimming pools, its leaders are engaged in recovery of theological awareness and ecumenical vigor. . . . It may be that the greatest challenge to the Y.M.C.A. is to reclaim its religious heritage for the robust assertion of a new ecumenism among laymen in local communities. [b]The Y.M.C.A. just might be able to do things for the Christian churches which, in their parochial rigidities, they seem unable to do for themselves
What about the world's religious systems as a whole? Do they act like the harlot "Babylon the Great"? [b]Have they looked to the United Nations as man's only hope for peace and security and, hence, as needed for their own preservation? Do these religious systems, then, not depend upon the United Nations as does a rider upon his horse? The facts speak for themselves.Frankly, I don't see how any sincere Jehovah's Witness, after carefully and honestly examining this information (and adhering to the Society's reasoning on matters), can come to the conclusion that the Society's former association with the UN's department of public information was not inappropriate.
I'm still searching for the other article I had in mind that essentially stated that because the UN is idolized as man's only hope for peace, it is thus worshiped and amounts to the same thing as religion. However, because I can't remember the exact wording I'm having trouble locating the reference. I'll keep looking and post it as soon as I find it...
Five Gospels
when caught red handed with 10 years of signed documents where your leaders swore to uphold and promote the interests of the very organization you have vilified as satan's instrument, you now say, "i don't see that as a sin.
because you were caught?
also, if the proof is only "supposed," then where's a solid rebuttal to that proof without the ad hominems and red herrings?.
Oh crap!
I wish I were at home reading this because I could post the relevant Watchtower articles from my CDROM.
One is a rather lengthy article (a Questions from Readers) that explains why a "true Christian" would never become affiliated in any way shape or form with the YMCA for any reason. Replace the word YMCA with UN and you have a very powerful case against Society's association.
And just in case anybody objects to this on the grounds that the UN is not a religious organization, there is another nice article that explains why the UN is in fact a religious organization.
I'm sure these articles have been posted elsewhere but if nobody can find the links (or knows what articles I'm referring to) I'll post them tonight.
Five Gospels
